cc: Eric W Wolff <ewwo@bas.ac.uk>, plemke@awi-bremerhaven.de,  ewwo@bas.ac.uk, p.j.valdes@bristol.ac.uk, r.r.dickson@cefas.co.uk,  marotzke@dkrz.de, haugan@gfi.uib.no, studhope@glg.ed.ac.uk,  rwood@meto.gov.uk, sfbtett@meto.gov.uk, j.m.slingo@reading.ac.uk, Lowe J <J.Lowe@rhul.ac.uk>, pc@soc.soton.ac.uk, a.j.watson@uea.ac.uk,  Alex.Haxeltine@uea.ac.uk, k.briffa@uea.ac.uk, m.hulme@uea.ac.uk,  lkeigwin@whoi.edu, cg1@mercury.soc.soton.ac.uk, apar@nerc.ac.uk,  ppn@nerc.ac.uk
date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:38:50 -0000
from: Lowe J <J.Lowe@rhul.ac.uk>
subject: RE: modelling intercomparison (continued)
to: "'I.N.McCave'" <mccave@esc.cam.ac.uk>, mas@soc.soton.ac.uk

I am in agreement with Nick and Eric.  I understand the unease when
procedures depart from the norm, but sometimes pragmatism has to prevail.
In this instance, if sticking to 'the rules' means that there would be a
danger of this component of the programme falling apart at the seams, then
that would be to the detriment of the programme.   Eric's assessment of the
situation  I found persuasive.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: I.N.McCave [mailto:mccave@esc.cam.ac.uk]
Sent: 18 March 2004 11:34
To: mas@soc.soton.ac.uk
Cc: Eric W Wolff; plemke@awi-bremerhaven.de; ewwo@bas.ac.uk;
p.j.valdes@bristol.ac.uk; r.r.dickson@cefas.co.uk; marotzke@dkrz.de;
haugan@gfi.uib.no; studhope@glg.ed.ac.uk; rwood@meto.gov.uk;
sfbtett@meto.gov.uk; j.m.slingo@reading.ac.uk; j.lowe@rhul.ac.uk;
pc@soc.soton.ac.uk; a.j.watson@uea.ac.uk; Alex.Haxeltine@uea.ac.uk;
k.briffa@uea.ac.uk; m.hulme@uea.ac.uk; lkeigwin@whoi.edu;
cg1@mercury.soc.soton.ac.uk; apar@nerc.ac.uk; ppn@nerc.ac.uk
Subject: Re: modelling intercomparison (continued)


Dear Meric,

My opinion is the same as Eric's.  We should move pragmatically, and do it 
now.  I forsee more complications and delay in other possibly more 
bureaucratically "fair" but less effective routes.

Yours,
Nick

At 08:42 18/03/2004, Eric W Wolff wrote:
>Meric et al.,
>
>Of course I completely understand Peter's concern.  But you know that the 
>motivation of the modelling subgroup was that we need to get this exercise 
>started as soon as possible (while 1st round projects are still 
>active!).  We have already lost almost a year because our first attempt 
>was unsuccessful.  If there had been a lot of groups out there wanting to 
>do this, my guess is that they would have found a person associated with 
>them to apply last time, although  I realise what Peter suggested is a 
>very different mechanism.  However, we have no guarantee that a second 
>attempt, by a slightly different route, will be any more successful.
>
>My attitude, wanting to get this rolling, was that, if NERC felt this 
>(Gregory) route was acceptable within their rules, then it was a good 
>solution.  I know this prejudges, but we are unlikely to get a better 
>offer, in terms of expertise, connectivity to the international 
>intercomparisons, and willingness.  It still demands that the methodology 
>be peer reviewed so does not compromise quality.  It is not based on 
>random favouritism, because it builds on a submitted outline that showed a 
>willingness to do this kind of task. It seems to me that this method shows 
>the steering committee doing what it should, steering!
>
>Peter feels we could do a tender in a similar time.  I am not so sure, but 
>maybe.  If we do that, we have to remove Jonathans's existing outline from 
>the second AO or we will have duplication.  I am not so sure this is fair 
>either.
>
>Anyway, in summary, I'd like to hear the NERC view on the legality of the 
>route we proposed.  I accept that, if its considered an inappropriate 
>route, we have to go with a tender, but I have a feeling we would be 
>losing time to bureaucracy for no result if we do that.
>
>I have stated a rather clear opinion to try to help Meric resolve the 
>issue so i will sit back and wait for the brickbats.
>
>Eric
>
>
>----------------------------
>Eric Wolff
>British Antarctic Survey
>High Cross
>Madingley Road
>Cambridge CB3 0ET
>United Kingdom
>
>E-mail: ewwo@bas.ac.uk
>Phone: +44 1223 221491
>Fax: +44 1223 221279
>Alternate fax: +44 1223 362616
>
> >>> Meric Srokosz <mas@soc.soton.ac.uk> 16/03/04 16:31:26 >>>
>Dear all - Peter Challenor has raised some issues regarding the
>modelling intercomparison (see below). Do others have views?
>We need to move forward on this, so I am going to set a deadline
>of noon next Monday 22nd March for imput. So if you have a view
>(of any kind) please e-mail the Steering Committee before the
>deadline.
>
>Many thanks, Meric
>
> >I am not exactly sure what is being proposed here. Is the plan to
> >remove Jonathan Gregory's proposal from the second AO and rebadge an
> >expanded version as the modelling intercomparison activity or is the
> >expanded version still going to be part of the AO? I am not
> >particularly keen on either. In both cases we seem to be giving a
> >proposal an 'inside track' to funding in way that does not to me to
> >be either open or fair. There may be other groups who would have bid
> >for this work if they had not thought that there was an existing
> >model intercomparison activity. I should make it plain that I have
> >no problem with Jonathan actually doing the work - he would be an
> >excellent choice; it is the mechanism I am not happy with.
> >
> >I would prefer us to put out a tender for the work (after all we
> >know what we want done). This would then be completely open and fair
> >and I would have thought we could sort it out in a similar time
> >scale to the AO.
> >
> >Peter
>--
>
>
>Dr. Meric Srokosz, Room 254/43,Southampton Oceanography Centre (SOC)
>Empress Dock, Southampton, SO14 3ZH, UK
>Tel:+44-(0)23-80596414 (direct line); Fax: +44-(0)23-80596400
>e-mail: mas@soc.soton.ac.uk or M.Srokosz@soc.soton.ac.uk
>http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk/JRD/SAT/pers/mas.html
>
>Science Coordinator NERC Rapid Climate Change Programme
>http://rapid.nerc.ac.uk/

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Prof I.N.McCave
Department of Earth Sciences,
University of Cambridge,
Downing St.
Cambridge, CB2 3EQ.UK.
Phone:    +44 1223 33 3422
Fax:        +44 1223 33 3450
internet: mccave@esc.cam.ac.uk
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