cc: liqx@cma.gov.cn
date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:04:14 +0800
from: =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= <limmy@263.net>
subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: thank you
to: p.jones@uea.ac.uk

   Dear Phil

   I have sent you the station numbers change plot in Oct 14th 's email.

   here I attached the numbers during Jan 1951 -Dec 2004.

   Best

   Qingxiang




     ----- Original Message -----
     From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
     To: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >
     Cc: < liqx@cma.gov.cn >
     Sent: 2007-10-19 17:23:40 +0800
     Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re: thank you
      Dear Qingxiang,
        A couple of other things. Can you say how many stations over China
      you've used in developing this series? I presume the number differs
      slightly from year to year, so the maximum number will be fine.
      Also, I presume all these stations have been adjusted for
      homogeneity - well not all, but all those where your work suggested
      they should.
      Cheers
      Phil
     At 08:56 19/10/2007, =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= wrote:

     Dear Phil,
     Ok, I attached the series by this emil. Please  find the txt  file, which is the average
     value for each month. (I grided the station numbers into 2.5*2.5 grid boxes by First
     Differnce Method (Tom Peterson) then averged anomalies in the whole country.
     Best
     Qingxiang

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
          To: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >
          Cc: < liqx@cma.gov.cn >
          Sent: 2007-10-18 18:50:13 +0800
          Subject: Re:Re:Re: thank you
           Dear Qingxiang,
               Is it possible to send the numbers, as opposed to the plot?
           Since 1951 will be fine.
           Best Regards
           Phil
          At 03:51 17/10/2007, =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= wrote:

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
                To: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >
                Cc: < liqx@cma.gov.cn >
                Sent: 2007-10-12 17:20:58 +0800
                Subject: Re:Re: thank you
                Dear Phil,
                I have told you the difficulties of doing the monthly series during 1910-2006
                of average China surface air temperature at present in last email, but I did
                the series since 1951(attachment).
                I hope there will be helpful.
                Best
                Qingxiang Li
                Dear Qingxiang,
                I have been away much of the last 3 weeks,
                but I have managed to get
                someone here to produce a few plots of the data you sent. I am
                attaching 3
                of these plots. The first plot is a summary of the 'China'
                average
                we have produced from the data you sent (the two sets of 40-42
                stations).
                We also used the data for the same stations we had in 1990.
                So there are 4 series on the plot
                Data for 1954-1983 rural and urban sites as we had in 1990
                Data for 1951-2004 rural and urban site as you sent
                All are anomalies from 1954-83 - I need to change this to
                1961-90
                The other two plots show the 'rural' and 'urban' separately
                and
                also plot your unadjusted as well as your adjusted sites. So
                these
                have 3 series on. There is also a line with the count of station
                numbers.
                What this shows to me is.
                1. As I expected - your homogeneity work (whilst good and useful)
                doesn't
                really change the average. It improves individual records,
                but it tends to
                cancel out when a number of stations are averaged.
                2. There is a dramatic warming from mid-1980s - some of which may
                be urban related?
                What I still need to do.
                1. I will produce a series for SST for the S. and E. China sea from
                HadSST2. This
                will not have any 'urban' influence.
                2. An average based on some rural stations in Mongolia and the very
                east of Russia,
                and any sites I can find in the north of Vietnam, Laos and Myanmmar
                ( I'm not
                very hopeful of finding any good sites in these three
                countries).
                One other thing I would like from you. Can you send a 'China'
                average? What
                I need is an average for the whole of the period from say 1910 to
                2006. This would
                be from your adjusted station dataset and would use many more
                stations than
                the 40-42 you have ( and exclude the obvious rural ones as in He et
                al. 2004
                in Theor. Appl. Clim.). Is this possible as a monthly
                series?
                I will also send a couple of powerpoint slides to show you
                why
                homogeneity adjustments average to approximately zero.
                Best Regards
                Phil
                At 04:16 25/09/2007, =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?=
                wrote:

                Dear Phil,
                Again I find that the emails from my CMA mail boxes can not get to
                you.
                From attaches please find the data of 42 urban stations and 42 rural
                stations (by your list) and a reference of homogenization of the data. we
                have tested and adjusted the abrupt discontinuities of the data during
                1951-2001, but the following years (2002-2004) has only been quality
                controled and added to the end of the series, but we found the relocation
                during these 3 years have minor effects on the whole series in most of
                the stations.
                I partly agree with what Prof. Ren said. and we have done some
                analysis on the urban heat island effect in China during past years. The
                results are differnt with Ren's. But I think different methods, data, and
                selection of the urban and rural stations would be the most important
                causes of this. So I think it is high time to give some new studies and
                graw some conclusion in this topic. I hope we can make some new
                achives on this both on global scale and in China.
                Best
                Qingxiang

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
                      To: "Rean Guoyoo" < guoyoo@yahoo.com >
                      Cc: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >, <
                      liqx@cma.gov.cn >
                      Sent: 2007-09-24 16:25:59 +0800
                      Subject: Re: thank you
                      Dear Guoyu,
                      I think I emailed you from America last week. I am
                      away again next week,
                      but here this week.
                      I do think that understanding urban influences are
                      important. I will
                      wait for Dr Li Qingxiang to send some data, but there is no
                      rush, as I am
                      quite busy the next few weeks.
                      Best Regards
                      Phil
                      At 00:59 20/09/2007, you wrote:

                      The following message was returned back when I sent via cma site. I
                      send it again via this site. I also forwarded this message to Dr, Li
                      Qingxiang.
                      Regards,
                      Guoyu
                      Dear Phil,
                      Thank you for your message of Sept 11, 2007. I have just been back
                      from the US. Sorry for the delayed response.
                      I noted the discussion on blog sites. This is indeed a big issue in
                      the studies of climate change.
                      In the past years, we did some analyses of the urban warming effect
                      on surface air temperature trends in China, and we found the effect is
                      pretty big in the areas we analyzed. This is a little different from the
                      result you obtained in 1990. I think there might be at least three
                      reasons for the difference: (1) the areas chosen in the analyses are
                      different; (2) the time periods analyzed are obviously varied, and the
                      aft-1990 period is seeing a more rapid warming in most areas of China;
                      (3) the rural stations used for the analyses are different, and we used
                      some stations which we think could be more representative for the
                      baseline change.
                      We have published a few of papers on this topic in Chinese.
                      Unfortunately, when we sent our comments to the IPCC AR4, they were
                      mostly rejected.
                      It is my opinion that we need to re-assess the urbanization effect on
                      surface air temperature records for at least some regions of the
                      continents. I am glad that you are going to redo it using the updated
                      dataset. I expect you to obtain the new outcome.
                      As for the dataset, I believe that Dr. Li Qingxiang could give you a
                      hand. He and his group conducted a lot work of detection and adjustment
                      of the inhomogeneities in the past years, and the adjusted and the raw
                      datasets are all stored and managed in his center. The datasets we used
                      are also from his center.
                      I'd be happy to discuss some issues with you late, but I would not
                      necessarily be as a co-author because my contribution would be rather
                      minor.
                      Best regards,
                      Guoyu
                      NCC, Beijing
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                      Prof. Phil Jones
                      Climatic Research Unit
                      Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
                      School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603
                      507784
                      University of East
                      Anglia
                      Norwich
                      Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
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                      ----

                =======================263¬£µ
                ¨µ=======================
                Prof. Phil Jones
                Climatic Research Unit
                Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
                School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603
                507784
                University of East
                Anglia
                Norwich
                Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
                NR4 7TJ
                UK
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                =======================263¥¤©¤¸©®¯¼¤¿¡¨µ
                ®¨ª¤¸¤¸=======================

     Prof. Phil Jones

   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
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   =======================263å¤©ä¸é®ï¼ä¿¡èµé®èªä¸ä¸=============
   ==========

   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
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   =======================263天信=======================
   Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\station number.doc"

