date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:53:46 +0100 (BST)
from: David Lister <D.Lister@uea.ac.uk>
subject: Re: Fwd: Re:Re:Re:Re: thank you
to: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>

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Phil,

I have got the annual anomaly series from the latest "all-China" monthly 
series that you sent.  I have done a quick draft plot that shows distinct 
similarities - as we hoped.  See hard-copy in your pigeon hole.

Cheers

David

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Phil Jones wrote:

>
> David,
>    The attached is a China (country) average) for each month 1951-2004.
> Can you reformat and do a plot comparing this with the average you
> have from the rural and urban networks you were working with a few
> weeks ago.
>   I hope this 'national' series will look much like the ones you have.
> It looks as though this is in absolute deg C for each month, so make
> into anomalies wrt 54-83 period you were using before. You could
> also plot this one wrt 1961-90 against the CRU grid that I've also sent 
> you.
> A plot for this new one and the CRU one for all 4 seasons plus the year
> wrt 61-90 would also be useful.
>
> Cheers
> Phil
>
>> X-ABS-CHECKED:1
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>> From: =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= <limmy@263.net>
>> To: p.jones@uea.ac.uk
>> Cc: liqx@cma.gov.cn
>> Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re: thank you
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:56:44 +0800
>> X-Mailer: XMail-3.0
>> X-UEA-Spam-Score: 2.4
>> X-UEA-Spam-Level: ++
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>> 
>> Dear Phil,
>> Ok, I attached the series by this emil. Please  find the txt  file, which 
>> is the average value for each month. (I grided the station numbers into 
>> 2.5*2.5 grid boxes by First Differnce Method (Tom Peterson) then averged 
>> anomalies in the whole country.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Qingxiang
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
>> To: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >
>> Cc: < liqx@cma.gov.cn >
>> Sent: 2007-10-18 18:50:13 +0800
>> Subject: Re:Re:Re: thank you
>>  Dear Qingxiang,
>>      Is it possible to send the numbers, as opposed to the plot?
>>  Since 1951 will be fine.
>> 
>>  Best Regards
>>  Phil
>> 
>> 
>> At 03:51 17/10/2007, =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?= wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
>>> To: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >
>>> Cc: < liqx@cma.gov.cn >
>>> Sent: 2007-10-12 17:20:58 +0800
>>> Subject: Re:Re: thank you
>>> Dear Phil,
>>> I have told you the difficulties of doing the monthly series during 
>>> 1910-2006 of average China surface air temperature at present in last 
>>> email, but I did the series since 1951(attachment).
>>> I hope there will be helpful.
>>> Best
>>> Qingxiang Li
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Qingxiang,
>>> I have been away much of the last 3 weeks,
>>> but I have managed to get
>>> someone here to produce a few plots of the data you sent. I am
>>> attaching 3
>>> of these plots. The first plot is a summary of the 'China'
>>> average
>>> we have produced from the data you sent (the two sets of 40-42
>>> stations).
>>> We also used the data for the same stations we had in 1990.
>>> So there are 4 series on the plot
>>> 
>>> Data for 1954-1983 rural and urban sites as we had in 1990
>>> Data for 1951-2004 rural and urban site as you sent
>>> 
>>> All are anomalies from 1954-83 - I need to change this to
>>> 1961-90
>>> 
>>> The other two plots show the 'rural' and 'urban' separately
>>> and
>>> also plot your unadjusted as well as your adjusted sites. So
>>> these
>>> have 3 series on. There is also a line with the count of station
>>> numbers.
>>> 
>>> What this shows to me is.
>>> 
>>> 1. As I expected - your homogeneity work (whilst good and useful)
>>> doesn't
>>> really change the average. It improves individual records,
>>> but it tends to
>>> cancel out when a number of stations are averaged.
>>> 
>>> 2. There is a dramatic warming from mid-1980s - some of which may
>>> be urban related?
>>> 
>>> What I still need to do.
>>> 
>>> 1. I will produce a series for SST for the S. and E. China sea from
>>> HadSST2. This
>>> will not have any 'urban' influence.
>>> 
>>> 2. An average based on some rural stations in Mongolia and the very
>>> east of Russia,
>>> and any sites I can find in the north of Vietnam, Laos and Myanmmar
>>> ( I'm not
>>> very hopeful of finding any good sites in these three
>>> countries).
>>> 
>>> One other thing I would like from you. Can you send a 'China'
>>> average? What
>>> I need is an average for the whole of the period from say 1910 to
>>> 2006. This would
>>> be from your adjusted station dataset and would use many more
>>> stations than
>>> the 40-42 you have ( and exclude the obvious rural ones as in He et
>>> al. 2004
>>> in Theor. Appl. Clim.). Is this possible as a monthly
>>> series?
>>> 
>>> I will also send a couple of powerpoint slides to show you
>>> why
>>> homogeneity adjustments average to approximately zero.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 04:16 25/09/2007, =?gb2312?B?JUQ1JUM1JUMwJUYyJUMzJUY0IA==?=
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Dear Phil,
>>>> 
>>>> Again I find that the emails from my CMA mail boxes can not get to
>>>> you.
>>>> 
>>>> From attaches please find the data of 42 urban stations and 42 rural
>>>> stations (by your list) and a reference of homogenization of the 
>>>> data. we
>>>> have tested and adjusted the abrupt discontinuities of the data 
>>>> during
>>>> 1951-2001, but the following years (2002-2004) has only been quality
>>>> controled and added to the end of the series, but we found the 
>>>> relocation
>>>> during these 3 years have minor effects on the whole series in most 
>>>> of
>>>> the stations.
>>>> 
>>>> I partly agree with what Prof. Ren said. and we have done some
>>>> analysis on the urban heat island effect in China during past years. 
>>>> The
>>>> results are differnt with Ren's. But I think different methods, data, 
>>>> and
>>>> selection of the urban and rural stations would be the most important
>>>> causes of this. So I think it is high time to give some new studies 
>>>> and
>>>> graw some conclusion in this topic. I hope we can make some new
>>>> achives on this both on global scale and in China.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Best
>>>> 
>>>> Qingxiang
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Phil Jones" < p.jones@uea.ac.uk >
>>>> To: "Rean Guoyoo" < guoyoo@yahoo.com >
>>>> Cc: "%D5%C5%C0%F2%C3%F4" < limmy@263.net >, <
>>>> liqx@cma.gov.cn >
>>>> Sent: 2007-09-24 16:25:59 +0800
>>>> Subject: Re: thank you
>>>> Dear Guoyu,
>>>> I think I emailed you from America last week. I am
>>>> away again next week,
>>>> but here this week.
>>>> 
>>>> I do think that understanding urban influences are
>>>> important. I will
>>>> wait for Dr Li Qingxiang to send some data, but there is no
>>>> rush, as I am
>>>> quite busy the next few weeks.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Phil
>>>> 
>>>> At 00:59 20/09/2007, you wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The following message was returned back when I sent via cma site. I
>>>>> send it again via this site. I also forwarded this message to Dr, 
>>>>> Li
>>>>> Qingxiang.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Guoyu
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Phil,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you for your message of Sept 11, 2007. I have just been back
>>>>> from the US. Sorry for the delayed response.
>>>>> I noted the discussion on blog sites. This is indeed a big issue in
>>>>> the studies of climate change.
>>>>> In the past years, we did some analyses of the urban warming effect
>>>>> on surface air temperature trends in China, and we found the effect 
>>>>> is
>>>>> pretty big in the areas we analyzed. This is a little different 
>>>>> from the
>>>>> result you obtained in 1990. I think there might be at least three
>>>>> reasons for the difference: (1) the areas chosen in the analyses 
>>>>> are
>>>>> different; (2) the time periods analyzed are obviously varied, and 
>>>>> the
>>>>> aft-1990 period is seeing a more rapid warming in most areas of 
>>>>> China;
>>>>> (3) the rural stations used for the analyses are different, and we 
>>>>> used
>>>>> some stations which we think could be more representative for the
>>>>> baseline change.
>>>>> We have published a few of papers on this topic in Chinese.
>>>>> Unfortunately, when we sent our comments to the IPCC AR4, they were
>>>>> mostly rejected.
>>>>> It is my opinion that we need to re-assess the urbanization effect 
>>>>> on
>>>>> surface air temperature records for at least some regions of the
>>>>> continents. I am glad that you are going to redo it using the 
>>>>> updated
>>>>> dataset. I expect you to obtain the new outcome.
>>>>> As for the dataset, I believe that Dr. Li Qingxiang could give you 
>>>>> a
>>>>> hand. He and his group conducted a lot work of detection and 
>>>>> adjustment
>>>>> of the inhomogeneities in the past years, and the adjusted and the 
>>>>> raw
>>>>> datasets are all stored and managed in his center. The datasets we 
>>>>> used
>>>>> are also from his center.
>>>>> I'd be happy to discuss some issues with you late, but I would not
>>>>> necessarily be as a co-author because my contribution would be 
>>>>> rather
>>>>> minor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Guoyu
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> NCC, Beijing
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shape Yahoo! in your own 
>>>>> image.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7> 
>>>>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7>Join 
>>>>> our Network Research Panel today!
>>>> 
>>>> Prof. Phil Jones
>>>> Climatic Research Unit
>>>> Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
>>>> School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603
>>>> 507784
>>>> University of East
>>>> Anglia
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Norwich
>>>> Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
>>>> NR4 7TJ
>>>> 
>>>> UK
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> =======================263ÃÃ¬ÃÃÃÃÂ£ÂÃÃÃÂµÃÃÃÃÃÂ¨ÃÂµ=======================
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Prof. Phil Jones
>>> Climatic Research Unit
>>> Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
>>> School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603
>>> 507784
>>> University of East
>>> Anglia
>>> 
>>> Norwich
>>> Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk
>>> NR4 7TJ
>>> UK
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =======================263å¤©ä¸é®ï¼ä¿¡èµé®èªä¸ä¸=======================
>> Prof. Phil Jones
>> Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
>> School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
>> University of East Anglia
>> Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
>> NR4 7TJ
>> UK 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================263天下邮－信赖邮自专业=======================
>> 
>
> Prof. Phil Jones
> Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
> School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
> University of East Anglia
> Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
> NR4 7TJ
> UK 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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