cc: <david.parker@metoffice.gov.uk>, <Thomas.C.Peterson@noaa.gov>, "'Reinhard Boehm'" <Reinhard.Boehm@zamg.ac.at>, "'Susan Solomon'" <Susan.Solomon@noaa.gov>, "'Adrian Simmons'" <adrian.simmons@ecmwf.int>
date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:46:42 +0100
from: "Reinhard Boehm" <Reinhard.Boehm@zamg.ac.at>
subject: AW: Draft paper on Chinese temperature trends
to: "'Phil Jones'" <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>, "'Kevin Trenberth'" <trenbert@ucar.edu>

   Phil et al.,


   Here are some remarks on the Vienna part of your paper. I hope not too late!


   Please change two things:


   1)       The recent Vienna site ist Wien - Hohe Warte, Wien - Hhe Warte. It is true that
   we have those ""s quite often in our language, but not in this case.

   2)       I would not call the Hohe Warte site an urban one. In fact it is a 19^th century
   cottage area with not much changes since then. Therefore it shows no significant increase
   of the urban excess-temperatures.


   Because of 2) your comparative discussion of London and Vienna may mislead the reader a bit
   by letting him believe that the Vienna heat island is so much smaller than the one of
   London because you mention the Wien-Hohe Warte series to be urban. I know this has nothing
   to do with your argument that both cities show no trend of the urban excess temperature.


   In fact, I showed in my 1998 paper that the mean heat island of Vienna (=the difference of
   the densely built-up city centre vs. the rural comparative stations) is approximately 1.5K
   as well, thus being near to the one of London.


   The pity is, that we have no city centre series prior to 1950, thus I did send you only the
   Hohe Warte plus the longest nearby rural one of Groenzersdorf. I could provide you also
   with one representative series from the historic centre (the C1-site of the 1998-paper)
   which at least until 1995 showed no trend vs. the rural sites but a constant surplus of
   1.5K. We could update this one to 1997 within a few days if You are interested.


   Cheers


   Reinhard



   P.S.: As to the EI-corrections we have now started to have a final look at what was sent by
   the Italians (the new question mark in the 1860s they have found). So this has complicated
   my work which had been already ready for writing the paper. But I hope we will see clearer
   now in a few weeks whether to once more add another EI-Correction or not.

   Another reason for my delays is a privat book-project which eats up all my sparetime at
   home. It will be in German so I have attached the front page and the table of contents - if
   there is interest of any german speaking member of your team please tell me and I ll send
   you a copy (in April it should be printed).

   But this has to be finished by the end of February latest, so there is some hope for the
   future. Our group is obviously too small to allow the few staff members to work the 40
   official hours alone, so the things which are the most interesting ones have to be
   postponed too often.



   ___________________________________________________________________________________________

   Von: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk]
   Gesendet: Montag, 14. Jnner 2008 17:28
   An: Kevin Trenberth
   Cc: david.parker@metoffice.gov.uk; Thomas.C.Peterson@noaa.gov; Reinhard Boehm; Susan
   Solomon; Adrian Simmons
   Betreff: Re: Draft paper on Chinese temperature trends


    Kevin,
       Will do. I can add in the UHI values for London/Vienna.
    I normally do the abstract last, but did it earlier this time and
    didn't really go back to it.
       The interesting bit for later is the use of SSTs as a rural series
    and then the comparison of Chinese land with SST. All the jump
    in the land seems to occur to me in the mid-1970s (the 76/77 climate
    shift).
    Cheers
    Phil
   At 16:03 14/01/2008, Kevin Trenberth wrote:

   Hi Phil
   I'll read it more thoroughly later.  My quick impression, more from the abstract than the
   main text, is that you are defensive and it almost seems that there is a denial of the UHI
   in part.  Yet later in the abstract and nicely in the first two sentences of the
   conclusions, you recognize that the UHI is real and the climate is different in cities.
   The point is that the homogenization takes care of this wrt the larger scale record and
   that UHI is essentially constant at many sites so that it does not alter trends.  So I urge
   you to redo the abstract and be especially careful of the wording.
   You might even start with:
   The Urban Heat Island (UHI) is a real phenomenon in urban settings that generally makes
   cities warmer than surrounding rural areas.   However, UHIs are evident at both London and
   Vienna, but do not contribute to the warming trends over the 20th century because the city
   influences have not changed much over that time.  Similarly, ...
   Regards
   Kevin
   Phil Jones wrote:

    Dear All,

           I have mentioned to you all that I've been working on a paper on
    Chinese temperature trends. This partly started because of allegations
    about Jones et al. (1990). This shows, as expected, that these claims
    were groundless.
        Anyway - I'd appreciate if you could have a look at this draft.  I have
    spelt things out in some detail at times, but I'm expecting if it is published
    that it will get widely read and all the words dissected. I know you're all
    very busy and I could have been doing something more useful, but it hasn't
    taken too long.
       The European examples are just a simple way to illustrate the difference
    between UHIs and urban-related warming trends, and an excuse to
    reference Luke Howard.
    Cheers
    Phil
   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    [1]p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
****************
Kevin E.
Trenberth
e-mail: [2]trenbert@ucar.edu
Climate Analysis
Section,

[3]www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/trenbert.html
NCAR
P. O. Box
3000,
(303) 497 1318
Boulder, CO
80307
(303) 497 1333 (fax)

Street address: 1850 Table Mesa Drive, Boulder, CO  80305

   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
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