cc: thigpenr@erols.com,  thigpenr@starpower.net, Udo.Schneider@dwd.de, teunissen_h@gateway.wmo.ch,  david.parker@metoffice.com, Howard.Diamond@noaa.gov,  matthew.menne@noaa.gov,  AKarpov@wmo.int, m.manton@bom.gov.au,  AThomas@wmo.int,  MAbayasekara@wmo.int, amrc@ssec.wisc.edu, "Sutherland, Alexander" <alsuther@nsf.gov>,  "Dr. Bernhard Lettau" <blettau@nsf.gov>
date: Thu Oct 14 16:14:27 2004
from: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>
subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: UW-Madison's AWS GSN stations]
to: Matthew Lazzara <mattl@ssec.wisc.edu>, "kathie.hill" <kathie.hill@usap.gov>,  Thomas C Peterson <Thomas.C.Peterson@noaa.gov>

    Matthew,
       Dick has figured out why the email list doesn't work. His system somehow strips off
    the full stops (periods) in some email addresses !  So not everyone on this list is
   getting
    this email, possibly. I've done my best to make the list correct.
       Some of the issues you raise Matthew, indicate how poorly at GCOS we have got our
    message across. The list of GSN stations was determined by a group of 3 following
    a couple of meetings organized by WMO. There was a GCOS report, a paper in BAMS in
    1997 (by Peterson et al) and all the lists were sent to each country (the PR in that
    country).  I would have though that the US PR should have sent the correspondence
    onto someone at Wisconsin/NSF. I may be naive here, but the UK PR (PR is Permanent Rep. to
    WMO) sends correspondence relating to the BAS stations in the Antarctic to BAS.
       Anyway you do know now, and it is possible to make changes to the GSN. It would seem
    that you should be an additional focal point in the US (for the Antarctic stations and
   AWSs)
    and you should make suggestions to the AGG for changes.
       As for long-term maintenance, the data are being used by ECMWF and NCEP in their
    analysis products, so they ought to be used for Climate. Some AWSs may be for specific
    purposes, but for us the main point is the climate and the trends therein.
       Finally, we chose Byrd because it had an historic manned record up to the early 1970s.
   Peterson, T.C., Daan, H. and Jones, P.D., 1997:  Initial selection of a GCOS surface
   network.  Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society 78, 2145-2152.
     Dick and I were in India earlier this week a regional GCOS workshop. Not one of the 18
   countries
    of south and southwest Asia, had any idea how the GSN had been selected. They have had
    correspondence on several occasions about the issue. We had to explain how and that they
    could make changes/additions. You can see why we want to get to the focal points, as these
    are the people doing the day-to-day work with the records.
      Cheers
    Phil
   At 20:53 11/10/2004, Matthew Lazzara wrote:

     Hello!
     Here is a resend of a note that failed to get to you folks on first try - please read
     below. As a note, it appears that it never got to "manton@bom.gov.au" and
     "parker@metoffice.com" and I do not have their proper e-mail addresses. Please send this
     along to the proper e-mail addresses for them if you feel they should be reading this.
     Thank you!
     Best Regards,
     Matthew
     -------- Original Message --------
     Subject: Re: UW-Madison's AWS GSN stations
     Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:40:42 -0500
     From: Matthew Lazzara <mattl@ssec.wisc.edu>
     Organization: SSEC
     To: Richard Thigpen <RThigpen@wmo.int>
     CC: Udo.Schneider@dwd.de,  thigpenr@erols.com, teunissen_h@gateway.wmo.ch,
     parker@metoffice.com, Howard.Diamond@noaa.gov,  matthew.menne@noaa.gov,
     Peterson@noaa.gov, jones@uea.ac.uk,  kathy.hill@usap.gov,  AKarpov@wmo.int,
     manton@bom.gov.au,  AThomas@wmo.int,  MAbayasekara@wmo.int, amrc@ssec.wisc.edu,
     "Sutherland, Alexander" <alsuther@nsf.gov>,  "Dr. Bernhard Lettau" <blettau@nsf.gov>
     References: <s164170d.057@gateway.wmo.ch>
     Dick, and everyone,
     Hello!  During last week's Advisory Group for GCOS (AGG) teleconference,
     we did talk about these 9 Antarctic Automatic Weather Stations that our
     group here at the University of Wisconsin-Madison manages (see below)
     and how these AWS sites have been voted by the Atmospheric Observing
     Panel for Climate (AOPC) about 4 or 5 years ago to be a part of the GCOS
     Surface Network (GSN).
     Dr. Charles Stearns (the Principal Investigator (PI) of the AWS project)
     and I talked about these stations and the expectations of them by the
     AGG/AOPC.  First, Dr. Stearns and the rest of our group here at the
     University of Wisconsin were not aware of the elevation to GSN status of
     these stations. (Of course, this explains some of the recent interest in
     CLIMAT data or climatology type data from our AWS sites as of late).
     Now that we do know, this brings up a series of issues and concerns.
     First, to maintain these sites, there would be a need to perhaps visit
     the sites yearly, especially as some of the sites suffer from snow
     accumulation, altering the height of the sensors above the surface.
     (These comments are noted by George Weidner, co-PI of the AWS project)
     Unfortunately, we have not been able to service/visit all of these sites
     over the last several years.
     Next, the elevation of these stations to GSN status, and the need to
     perhaps visit them more often would require a commitment from the
     National Science Foundation and its supporting sub-contractors (RPSC,
     etc.) to commit to being able to have our group or partners visit these
     sites yearly - a goal that might not be realistic due to the demands on
     the US Antarctic Program logistics.
     Next, some of these stations are maintained jointly with us and by other
     national Antarctic programs, and in some cases, there are no formal
     memorandums of agreement or understanding in place that have the level
     of service or care that might be required for a GSN station.
     The selection of these stations over others has made us wonder why the
     following sites listed below were not considered:
     89872 Univ. of Wi. ARGOS ID 8929 (Ferrell) 77.884 S 170.818 E 45 Meters
     89376 Univ. of Wi. ARGOS ID 8911 (Gill)    79.985 S 178.611 W 55 Meters
     89866 Univ. of Wi. ARGOS ID 8906 (Marble Point) 77.439 S        163.754 E 108
     Meters
     These sites have a fairly long record, and Gill represents one of the
     coldest spots on the Ross Ice Shelf.
     This leads to the next series of points: some of stations on the list
     are not operating well at this time (Byrd Station), some sites may not
     be able to be visited again due to USAP's logistic reach (Mount Siple),
     some sites have moved (SKI-HI is now SKI-BLU in a nearby location,
     Larsen Ice has moved inland some to stay inland of the retreating Larsen
     Ice Shelf C icefront), some sites do move on the Ross Ice Shelf over
     time (Lettau, Gill, Ferrell), knowing the elevation adequately (Mt.
     Siple, among others), some do not have a full "suite" of sensors, just
     the temperature and pressure (Mount Siple, Possession Island).
     In any case, I wish to make everyone on the AGG/AOPC aware of these
     issues, etc.  In meantime, with regards to generating real-time CLIMAT
     messages from these stations (and the back collection of CLIMAT
     messages), Dr. Stearns is going to discuss this further with George
     Weinder and Linda Keller to determine the feasibility, given the AWS
     project's current priorities.
     I hope this information helps!
     Best Regards,
     Matthew
     Richard Thigpen wrote:

     89262 UNIV. WI ID 8926 (LARSEN ICE 66 57S 60 55W 17
     SHELF)
     89266 UNIV. WI ID 8902 (BUTLER ISLAND) 72 13S 60 10W 91
     89272 UNIV. WI ID 8917 (SKI-HI) 74 59S 70 46W 1,395
     89324 UNIV. WI ID 8903 (BYRD STATION) 80 00S 119 24W 1,530
     89327 UNIV. WI ID 8981 (MOUNT SIPLE) 73 12S 127 03W 230
     89345 UNIV. WI ID 8900 (SIPLE DOME) 81 39S 148 47W 620
     89377 UNIV. WI ID 8908 (LETTAU) 82 31S 174 27W 55
     89828 UNIV. WI ID 8989 (DOME C II) 75 07S 123 23E 3,250
     89879 UNIV. WI ID 8984 (POSSESSION IS.) 71 54S 171 13E 30
     Richard K. Thigpen
     GCOS Secretariat
     301-598-5683
     301-452-7669
     41 22 730-8012 (in Geneva)
     thigpenr@erols.com
     RThigpen@wmo.int

     --
     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Matthew Lazzara -Meteorologist- Antarctic Meteorological Research Center
     947 Atmospheric, Oceanic and Space Sciences    [1]http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu
     Space Science and Engineering Center         E-mail: mattl@ssec.wisc.edu
     University of Wisconsin-Madison                    Phone: (608) 262-0436
     1225 West Dayton Street, Madison, WI 53706           Fax: (608) 263-6738
     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     --
     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Matthew Lazzara -Meteorologist- Antarctic Meteorological Research Center
     947 Atmospheric, Oceanic and Space Sciences    [2]http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu
     Space Science and Engineering Center         E-mail: mattl@ssec.wisc.edu
     University of Wisconsin-Madison                    Phone: (608) 262-0436
     1225 West Dayton Street, Madison, WI 53706           Fax: (608) 263-6738
     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

