cc: t.osborn@uea.ac.uk,k.briffa@uea.ac.uk
date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:46:22 +0100
from: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>
subject: Re: 2003GL017814 Decision
to: Scott Rutherford <srutherford@gso.uri.edu>

    Scott,
        Forwarded this to Tim and Keith here. It does look good. I'm away tomorrow but I'll
    be back Friday.
       If I spot anything I'll get back to you then.
    Cheers
    Phil
   At 10:54 18/06/03 -0400, Scott Rutherford wrote:

     Phil,
     Attached is a revised figure that shows the Mann and Jones NH reconstruction instead of
     the Briffa and Osborn, 1999). I've also added the uncertainties. In Mike's e-mail he
     said the 2-sigma limits were +-0.16 but I think those are actually 1-sigma. They are way
     too small and inconsistent with Mann and Jones 2003 to be 2-sigma. I used +-0.32 for the
     uncertainties.  I've also truncated the x-axis at AD 200 instead of 0.  I've changed the
     figure legend to match but leave the actual text of the caption up to you since you have
     the final text version and know the background of the series.
     The figure is in Adobe Illustrator 10 with a pdf embedded.
     Regards,
     Scott
     <br>
     <br>
     On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 11:42 AM, Phil Jones wrote:

       Scott,
          I'm off home now. Do you want to see if you can switch the two series around as
     Mike
      suggested. Replace the long Briffa one with the appended and alter caption accordingly.
      I'll email Ellen and Judy to see if possible.
      Cheers
      Phil
     X-Sender: mem6u@multiproxy.evsc.virginia.edu
     X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1
     Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:36:05 -0400
     To: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>
     From: "Michael E. Mann" <mann@virginia.edu>
     Subject: Re: Fwd: 2003GL017814 Decision
     Cc: Scott Rutherford <srutherford@gso.uri.edu>
     HI Phil,
     Thanks--that all sounds very good. I'll go ahead and make these changes, and then send
     you the PDF of the submitted file, hopefully later today.
     I like your idea of checking w/ Ellen or Judy Jacobs if we can substitute in the NH
     reconstruction (area and local-correlation weighted version) from the Mann and Jones
     (2003) paper. When I originally asked, Judy said we probably couldn't do it, because it
     was not accepted/in press. Now that it is, I'm sure we can substitute it for the long
     Briffa series--I agree that would be better. I assume this is still possible, as long as
     the piece hasn't gone into production--can you check w/ Judy and/or Ellen on this (and
     cc to me)?
     Also, would you mind working w/ Scott to get figure 1 modified appropriately--should
     just be a simple switch of series. I've attached the ascii data for the Mann and Jones
     NH reconstruction. We should probably also show the uncertainty limits as well for this
     (slightly different shading color)? They are +/- 0.16 for the 2 sigma limits. We'll also
     need to modify the figure 1 caption, and to add the reference for Mann and Jones to the
     Eos piece [Mann, M.E., Jones, P.D., Global Surface Temperatures over the Past two
     Millennia, Geophys. Res. Lett., in press, 2003]. Can you and Scott cc me the modified
     version of the Eos piece and figure when its done, if we go this route?
     Hope to resubmit the GRL before I leave for Hawaii (if Lorraine lets me)...By the way,
     the borehole GRL paper should be out today or tomorrow!
     talk to you later,
     mike
     At 11:53 AM 6/17/2003 +0100, Phil Jones wrote:
      Mike,
          Take a rest until the IUGG when you've got this off !!  Subject to a few
     alterations below,
      I'm happy for you to send this back to GRL. Cover letter and responses to reviewer are
     fine.
         Comments on new manuscript version.
      1. You need to get rid of some tracked bits of text.
      2. p3 line 8 of first para of methods, suggest adding possible to uncertainties re the
     dating -
         they may be correct !  They appear to be over 1901-80 !
      3. Middle para on this page, 1856-1980 should possibly be 1901-1980 as in the Fig 1
     caption.
        I've used 1901-80 in all the local correlations - that you now plot in Fig 1. Maybe
     you're
      referring to correlations with the NH temperature average at this point.
      4.  Bottom of this para and the numbers you want.  First can you add after proxy
     network on the
      3rd last line (8 sites for the NH and 3 for the SH).  This is just to make it clear
     which we've used
      (see also comment later on Fig 2 caption).
       I produced the NH and SH averages (weighted by area - so China and N. Russia get a
      bigger weight than the rest) and then calculated r-squared values (well r values which
     I
      squared) over 1901-80 with the same hemisphere for both the land-only average and the
      land+marine average.  Land/marine are better so I would go with these.  On the decadal
      timescale (over these 80 years) the values you want are 0.73 for NH and 0.60 for SH.
       This just goes to show that the instrumental record is too short to really look at
     this
      properly.  The values for land-only are 0.61 for NH and 0.20 for SH.  By the way the
      same values for land-only with land+marine are 0.81 for NH and 0.64 for SH, so the
     73/60
      numbers you'll use are amazingly high - especially as for the SH there are only 3
     series
      and one of these only has data from 1957.
        On the annual timescale the 73/60 numbers become 54/41 .
        I wouldn't comment on the 73/60 numbers - we'll just wait to see if anyone notices
     them.
      They should be an eye-opener to SB03 !!  As I say though they are only based on 80
     years
      of data.
         What we might think of with RoG is doing 2 NH reconstructions, putting half our
     series into
      one and the other half in the other. Then we can look at low-freq over longer periods.
     Need to
      choose which goes into which but we could do this maintaining spatial and proxy
     aspects.
      Discuss more in Sapporo - I'll be at your hotel at 3pm on July 6.
      5. Next para - it wasn't clear to me what the composites were so qualify by saying 'The
      hemispheric and global composites.
      6. 6th line of p4, change little to no or no hemispheric-scale   - unless you're trying
     to refer
      to longer instrumental data. There is nothing before 1856 and some proxies don't go
     beyond
      1980.
      7. 2cnd to last line of text on p5, suggest removing such.
      8. Figure 2 caption.  After sentence ending in AD 200, could add ' and all 8 back to AD
     553
      or 7 back to AD 256 and 8 back to AD 553.  You've done this for the SH later.
      Send me the submitted pdf. I've not heard any more about the EOS piece but Ellen has
      got it - I got an email from her to Judy.
       I can send out this pdf if you want  - to the group with the EOS piece and also to
     Ellen. I would
      suggest with EOS we add this series into Fig 1, back to AD200, possibly by replacing
     the
       long Briffa series.
      Cheers
      Phil
     At 15:02 16/06/03 -0400, you wrote:
     Thanks Phil,
     We had a great wedding--Ray was there w/ Jane, now we're in San Fran, and I've promised
     Lorraine that I'll deal w/ email stuff this morning and maybe a bit tomorrow--otherwise
     its sightseeing. Glad to hear the seasonal paper is coming out soon--we can update the
     reference in ROG along w/ a few others soon, I hope. GRL is definitely faster--this one
     could appear in less than 2 months from the time of submission!
     Hoping we can wrap up the revised version within the next couple days, before next leg
     of our trip (Hawaii)...
     Attached is the revised version (w/ revised figures as provided by Scott included),
     cover letter, and response to reviewers, pending your final suggestions--yellow
     highlighted text  indicates information that I am awaiting from you. Re, comment #5, I
     think we just need two numbers now to  address the comment--the decadal correlations
     between the full NH and SH decadal instrumental series, and the series formed by
     arealy-averaging in each hemisphere only over the  grid-boxes  corresponding to the
     regions sampled by the proxy data. Do you have those two numbers, or can you calculate
     them easily enough? I suspect these are indeed quite high, and adding those (where I
     indicate in yellow highlighting) should be the last thing we need to do...
     Also, note that I've changed the way we smooth the series to preserve the late 20th
     century trend, like we did in the Eos piece. I've always estimated the uncertainties a
     bit more conservatively as described in text--so they're a bit expanded now. None of the
     conclusions change, although the globe is actually a bit more anomalous in the late 20th
     century when you spreserve the late 20th century trend in the smoothing, so I've tweaked
     the wording there just a bit...
     Once I hear back from you, I'll incorporate this final info, and any final comments you
     have, and resubmit via GEMS.
     Let me also suggest that we send out the revised draft to our Eos co-authors, and others
     like S. Solomon, and Ellen M-T and Mike Hulme, who are following these developments?
     Feel free to send it to others, now that it can be considered 'in press'.
     I don't think we should distribute it broadly, however, until we discuss e.g. a possible
     press release w/ Harvey Leiffert to coincide w/ the publication of the paper.
     Let me know what you think. looking forward to hearing back from you,
     thanks,
     Prof. Phil Jones
     Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
     School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
     University of East Anglia
     Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
     NR4 7TJ
     UK
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     ______________________________________________________________
                         Professor Michael E. Mann
                Department of Environmental Sciences, Clark Hall
                           University of Virginia
                          Charlottesville, VA 22903
     _______________________________________________________________________
     e-mail: mann@virginia.edu   Phone: (434) 924-7770   FAX: (434) 982-2137
              [1]http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty/people/mann.shtml
     Prof. Phil Jones
     Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
     School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
     University of East Anglia
     Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
     NR4 7TJ
     UK
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


     ______________________________________________
                           Scott Rutherford
     Marine Research Scientist
     Graduate School of Oceanography
     University of Rhode Island
     e-mail: srutherford@gso.uri.edu
     phone: (401) 874-6599
     fax: (401) 874-6811
     snail mail:
     South Ferry Road
     Narragansett, RI 02882
     <br>
     </blockquote></x-html>

   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

