date: Thu Jul 10 17:19:13 2008
from: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>
subject: Re: AW: my definite draft version posed to discussion,    
to: David Frank <david.frank@wsl.ch>

    David,
       The Pyrenees record sounds a useful inclusion - they aren't that far from the Alps.
    I'm keen to only use results from papers that have produced a reconstruction.
    I'm aware of what Keith and Tom are doing here with others from the old project,
    but this work is still ongoing.
      So maybe you can send the Pyrenees reconstruction, or should I contact Ulf.
    Reinhard is supposed to be sending me some more series he has collected.
    This may include the lakes stuff you mention.
      Rob Wilson's work if there is a reconstruction would be useful.
      Smoothing the series highlights the differences more than the plot in your abstract
    where the interannual timescale is highlighted.
    Cheers
    Phil
   At 17:03 09/07/2008, you wrote:

     Hi Phil,
     Perhaps other T-records not on the list might include: Rob Wilson's compilation for the
     Alps used in D'Arrigo et al. 2006 and additional glacial records from
     Haberli/Holzhauser. I guess Keith and Tom were working towards putting together lots of
     long-term tree-ring data including material from the WSL, Grabner & Nicolussi (Austria),
     Urbinati/Carrer (Italy) for a definitive Alpine tree-ring reconstruction. Either such a
     composite or some of these individual records should be included. If not loosing the
     spatial focus to much for you, it might also be reasonable to consider Ulf's new
     reconstruction for the Pyrenees (in press at Clim Dyn). There is a a bunch of stuff from
     lakes recently published (Alex Blass / Martin Grosjean), but i am not too familiar with
     this.
     We are currently producing a composite record of different MXD chronologies (Ulf's
     Ltschental, the old Lauenen record, and some newer data from Kurt Nicolussi from Tirol
     - Keith and Tom have these records) but focusing on extremes rather than long-term
     variations. The goal is to compare this with Pfisters work.  Giovanna Battipaglia (a
     post doc) is working on this.
     Many people are starting to measure longer isotope series from tree-rings. However, I am
     not sure if /when these might turn into formal climate reconstructions....
     Not sure if this helps much. At least the list of "usual suspects" is slowly lengthening
     with time!
     I attach an abstract that i put together for a meeting. This was closely related to some
     text/work that i did in thinking about the proxy-instrumental comparisons and Reinhards
     current paper.
     cheers,
     David
     At 15:22 Uhr +0100 9.7.2008, Phil Jones wrote:

      David,
         I have plans to write-up what was planned at the end of ALP-IMP.
      This was what was in WP9. I have a draft paper from almost 2 years ago.
      Reinhard is going to send me all the proxy data/sources that he
      has collected in the last year or so.  I still have Dimitrios
      here and he has started doing some plots and correlations.
         For trees we have the series from Ulf's papers which have
      publication dates in 2005 and 2006. Are there others that we should be
      using?  I wanted to mainly stick to the GAR and continental Europe.
      Not keen to go much further afield with more distant proxies. Also
      trying to stick to the period since 1500. Apart from Ulf's series
      we also have the grape-harvest dates from Meier and Chiune et al,
      Jurg Luterbacher's reconstructions, Mangini et al's stalagmite
      and also the Oerlemans reconstruction based on glacier lengths.
      If there are others you think we should be using, can you point us
      to papers or to the data.
      Cheers
      Phil
     At 14:37 09/07/2008, David Frank wrote:

     Hi Reinhard et al.
     I made some additional suggestions /sentence shortenings for your final consideration. I
     too am happy for you to submit, but let me know if i can be of further help.
     I guess you have avoided any discussion about the larger-scale implications from this
     work. If you and Phil don't have larger plans in this direction, it might be reasonable
     to include this in the discussion and abstract.
     Its an honor to be involved with this work/collaboration. I've enjoyed and learned a
     lot!
     best wishes,
     David
     At 13:45 Uhr +0100 8.7.2008, Phil Jones wrote:

      Reinhard,
         A few minor changes. The one sentence in green in the small file needs
      more work.
         Happy for you to submit when ready.
      Cheers
      Phil
     At 15:43 07/07/2008, Reinhard Boehm wrote:

     Dear Michele,
     Thanks for your input. I have changed Fig.14 according to your suggestion
     (without ISAC-ori now), have changed also the respective sentence where
     ISAC-oris are addressed and have included your new passage about the ISAC
     series. Have a look at the attached respective passage, all in green is new.
     Thank You also for the Meier et all correction, I have received the true
     reference from Jrg Luterbacher already.
     Ciao
     Reinhard
     -----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
     Von: michele [[1]mailto:m.brunetti@isac.cnr.it]
     Gesendet: Montag, 07. Juli 2008 15:25
     An: David Frank
     Cc: Phil Jones; Reinhard Boehm; 'michele'; 'Maurizio Maugeri';
     johann.hiebl@zamg.ac.at
     Betreff: Re: my definite draft version posed to discussion, correcting and
     completing
     Dear Reinhard,
     Here is a suggestion to change the description of what we did with our
     series (it is only one line longer than yours!):
     Only Italian series were used for homogeneity testing and adjusting, the
     basis were minimum and maximum temperature series and the homogenization
     was "nearer to metadata" and verified at each step by checking its
     effect on daily temperature range series to avoid undue corrections.
     As far as figure 14 is concerned, I suggest to eliminate the orange
     curve, i.e. the ISAC-original, this is the only non-homogenized series
     we show and I think it makes confusion: you say that it is well within
     the range of the other regional series [in the EIP], but you don't
     highlight that it is colder in the recent half century. I think that
     this can confuse the reader, i.e. he can understand that the
     non-homogenized series and the EIP-corrected one are in good agreement,
     but this is not true (thik balck and orange are very different).
     Finally, Meier et al. (2008), in the introduction is Meier et al.
     (2007), GRL vol. 34 issue 20 L20705.
     Ciao
     Michele
     On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 05:58:24PM +0200, David Frank wrote:

      Dear Reinhard, Phil, et al.
      In catching up with emails, it seems like the manuscript is close to a

     nice and

      final state. I am fine with Reinhards suggestion to co-ordinate a last

     read

      through with Phil.
      I will be away until Tuesday, so would then be happy to work on the

     manuscript

      mid-week.
      Some quick thoughts:
      I agree with Phil's suggestion to tune figure 14 (given an EPS, i can do

     this

      too). Perhaps, e.g., the non EI corrected series could be denoted as

     dashed and

      each panel to span the entire width of a page.
      Also, the final paragraph of the conclusions might fit more nicely in the
      discussion. The manuscript could then end more generally about remaining
      uncertainties in the Alpine records and also larger-scale implications

     (e.g.

      Parker 1994).
      Have a good weekend.
      cheers,
      David
      At 9:28 Uhr +0100 4.7.2008, Phil Jones wrote:
           Reinhard,
               Here's a revised version with a concluding section. You will

     likely

          want
           to alter some of the conclusions as I may not have emphasized the

     right

           things.
               I suspect the bit at the end with the Italian adjustments from

     Michele

          and
           Maurizio could do with some tightening up.  Figure 14 is crucial to

     the

          paper.
           Is it possible that this can be clearer? The black line dominates.

     Perhaps

           the black line should be grey, with Inge's 2007 curve being a lighter
          colour.
           Perhaps also it might be better with a legend, so readers can see the
          colours
           rather than trying to relate your colour words in the caption to

     those in

           the plot. Maybe I should get a better colour printer!
              One other thing just noticed, CRUtem2v should be CRUTEM2v.
              The WP9 paper will contain lots of plots that Dimitrios is doing
          comparing
           with the proxy data - ALP-IMP and others, so this paper will have

     many

           more authors than this one.
               I'm here next week for one more look through if needed. Visitors

     the

          rest of
           the day and have to move compost bins in the garden at the weekend.
           Cheers
           Phil
          At 15:09 03/07/2008, Reinhard Boehm wrote:
              Dear all,
              Find attached my definite draft of our common paper. I now have to
              concentrate on other things to be done, and I hope to receive your
              input to produce a final version until July 15th (latest). I have
              completed the main part of the paper, have inserted Phil s summary

     I

              received a minute ago and have left undone only the conclusions. I

     have

              also inserted all so far received corrections and have tried to

     follow

              your remarks.
              I address Phil first. He has announced to be at CRU these two

     weeks and

              has reserved some time for our paper. It would be fine to receive

     also

              a conclusion from him. And please Phil, have a look at the three
              passages marked in green: I had some troubles there to follow your
              remarks, but I have produced something new which may be better

     now, but

              I believe it needs your input.
              It would be fine to have David for a general language correction,

     e.g.

              also the claimed shorter sentences if necessary. Is this possible?
              Maybe after Phil having done his work in order not to produce a

     mess of

              different versions. Pleas Phil and David discuss and decide about

     that

              among yourselves.
              Maurizio and Michele are kindly asked to tell if my short passage
              introducing and discussing the ISAC-version suits your conception.
              Please note that we currently are rather precisely at the maximum

     size

              planned for the Millennium paper (40 double spaced pages including

     all

              tables and figures). I have already slightly shortened my part,

     and I

              am afraid we do not have enough place for the entire passage

     Maurizio

              sent, all the more then we should also say more about the Swedish
              series and the other comparative series of Fig. 14.
              Please send me your inputs until end of next week latest to allow

     us to

              produce the final version in the style Climatic Change wants us to

     do

              (all figures are already present in the 600dpi version ready for
              printing, but I did not insert them into the attached version to

     keep

              the doc file in reasonable size.)
              I hope you all can say yes to what I have produced and do not want

     to

              withdraw your names from the author s list. I have avoided to

     include

              more pages and more co-authors by excluding the proxies more or

     less

              and also the modelling and forcing passage. This does not mean

     that I

              do not think that a follow-up  with a wider comparison of

     instrumental

              and proxy evidence available in the region.
              Whether this will be part of Phil s planned WP-9 paper of ALP-IMP

     or

              whether this will develop into a separate paper is left to Phil s

      >         decision.

              Best regards
              And do not hesitate to communicate also with me in the next days

     (I am

              still here at the institute until 17th July and am very interested

     in

              finishing this before).
              Reinhard
          Prof. Phil Jones
          Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
          School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
          University of East Anglia
          Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
          NR4 7TJ
          UK

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     (0020AFED)

     --
      Dr. Michele Brunetti
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      ISAC - CNR
      Via Gobetti, 101
      I-40129 Bologna
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Ph  +39 051 6399623
      Fax +39 051 6399658
      Mailto: m.brunetti@isac.cnr.it
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Personal web page: [2]http://www.isac.cnr.it/~climstor/michele/

     Prof. Phil Jones
     Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
     School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
     University of East Anglia
     Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
     NR4 7TJ
     UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Attachment converted: MacDave:draft-2008-07-06 1.doc (WDBN/IC) (0020CB7D)
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     Prof. Phil Jones
     Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
     School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
     University of East Anglia
     Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
     NR4 7TJ
     UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Prof. Phil Jones
   Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
   School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
   University of East Anglia
   Norwich                          Email    p.jones@uea.ac.uk
   NR4 7TJ
   UK
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